Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
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xng
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Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language

Postby xng » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:13 am

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Ah-bin
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Re: Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language

Postby Ah-bin » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:59 am

I certainly agree with you on the mutual intelligibility thing, it doesn't take long to get used to listening to Teochiu if you know Hokkien. But there are some problems with your argument.



First, the problem is that "Hokkien" is written with the characters for Fujian - and the Teochiu area is in Guangdong province, not in Fujian.



Second, what we call Hokkien is never called this in PRC publications. There it is always called Minnanhua 閩南話 and in Taiwan they usually call it Taiyu 台語 or Minnanyu 閩南語. Ordinary people sometimes call it Taiyu withour thinking when they are talking about Malaysian Hokkien. (BTW it is forbidden by law to use Taiyu 台語 to refer to Hokkien in PRC publications). Outside China and Taiwan, Hokkien 福建話 usually refers to Chiang-chiu/Chuan-chiu/Amoy language, or something very close to it, so if you mean "Teochiu is Hokkien" in this sense you are wrong. If you are using Hokkien to translate the term "閩南語" then you are right, and Chinese linguists will agree with you that Teochiu is a southern Min dialect.



I have just remembered that the speakers of other types of Southern MIn were called Hoklo 福佬 in Hong Kong and along the coast, which suggests they were perceived by others as having come from Fujian.



About Hainanese - it seems very different because of the s=t thing (the t in Hokkien disappears altogether in Hainanese too) and the lack of nasalised endings, but lots of Hainanese is very similar to Hokkien if you disregard this.



You haven't mentioned are the "missing links" between Teochiu and Hainanese - these are the Haifeng "Hoklo" language and the language of the Leizhou/Lui-chiu 雷州 Peninsula. I've heard the second one once, but not the first one.

xng
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Re: Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language

Postby xng » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:01 pm

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Ah-bin
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Re: Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language

Postby Ah-bin » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:26 am


tadpole
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Re: Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language

Postby tadpole » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am

By the way, Tadpolenese is the only romanized writing that takes into account all the major subdialects. Many of the words in Tadpolenese go unchanged from Quanzhou to Zhangzhou to Teochew.



I couldn't take into account Hainanese, because the on-line resources are just not there.

xng
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Re: Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language

Postby xng » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:51 pm

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Ah-bin
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Re: Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language

Postby Ah-bin » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:41 am


xng
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Re: Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language

Postby xng » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:10 pm

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