dialectologists needed

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
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alexchau
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:06 am

dialectologists needed

Post by alexchau » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:59 pm

Could someonne kindly tell me what is the different between Min Nan Dialects and Min Bei Dialects, please.

Little confused over here
xng
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: dialectologists needed

Post by xng » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:43 pm

Actually there are more than 2 min groups.

But I agree that in terms of special unique characteristics (not in terms of intelligibility), you can divide them into 2 'larger' min groups.

Greater Minnan - Quanzhou, Zhangzhou, Xiamen, Chaozhou, Hainan, Putian

Greater Minbei - Fuzhou, Fuqing, Wuyishan

I don't know anything about MinZhong to know whether it is closer to minnan or minbei.

PS. I know the finer definition of Minnan which is based on intelligibility but I am not using that here. I am using the 'greater minnan' definition. :mrgreen:
Last edited by xng on Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
xng
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: dialectologists needed

Post by xng » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:52 pm

From what I know, there are three basic differences between greater minnan and greater minbei

1. The greater number of different characters/words used (not the difference in sound). eg. mandarin use T'a and minnan use Ee to mean He/She.

2. Greater minbei languages seem to have changes in initial consonant when it is pronounced as the second character in a word. So greater minbei sounds more 'fluid/lazy' whereas greater minnan has to pronounce every character forcefully.

3. Greater minbei seem to have lost k,t,p just like mandarin whereas greater minnan still retain k,t,p ending consonants.

Maybe we can ask the other members here whether what I observe is true or not. I am more exposed to greater Minnan dialects.
xng
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: dialectologists needed

Post by xng » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:00 am

alexchau wrote:Could someonne kindly tell me what is the different between Min Nan Dialects and Min Bei Dialects, please.

Little confused over here
Please change your title to be more specific. ie.difference between minnan and minbei
NgKY
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:46 pm

Re: dialectologists needed

Post by NgKY » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:10 am

Actually, old definition of Minbei and Mindong are not very good divisions.
The old definition apparently based on a few sounds like ü /y/ (and maybe b/g) and this can easily be areal influence.
xng wrote:1. The greater number of different characters/words used (not the difference in sound). eg. mandarin use T'a and minnan use Ee to mean He/She.
Minzhong and Minbei use 佢, whereas Mindong and Minnan use 伊.
This way we have coastal-inland division, not North-South. A few other words like "pig" also show this division (豬 vs 豨).
2. Greater minbei languages seem to have changes in initial consonant when it is pronounced as the second character in a word. So greater minbei sounds more 'fluid/lazy' whereas greater minnan has to pronounce every character forcefully.
This applies to many words in Fuzhouhua, but I haven't found any in Jianou.
I'm not even sure if this applies to other Mindong like Ningde.
3. Greater minbei seem to have lost k,t,p just like mandarin whereas greater minnan still retain k,t,p ending consonants.
Minbei (like Jianou) and Fuzhouhua has lost those consonants, but from the following link, Ningde of Mindong apparently only lost -t ending (we still see -k and -p).
http://www.ling.sinica.edu.tw/eip/FILES ... 571905.pdf
More precisely, its -t is converted to -k instead of elided like in Mandarin.
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