Hokkien words in Thai

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
SimL
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby SimL » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:44 am

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the responses. Many of niuc's terms didn't ring any bells for me, so I'll have to ask my parents. "thor-kui" sounds very vaguely familiar, but only as a name - I have no image, nor any memory, of eating them. We had "la1-la1", which I do remember eating, but also no longer have a clear image of them. These could well be niuc's and amhoanna's "lâ'á", though the tone is slightly different. I did a "google image search" of all the species which were listed under amhoanna's link for "lâ'á" (http://zh-min-nan.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A2-%C3%A1), and indeed they look slightly familiar. [The Holopedia articles were very useful - thanks amhoanna!]

I suddenly remembered another one called "than1" - from memory longish, with a pale white/cream shell. I'll also check that with my parents the next time I speak to them.

Abalone is "pau-hu" in my variant. I love the taste of them. My parents once had a batch which they told me they suspected had been "illegally fished" (apparently, Australia has a quota system for harvesting of abalone), so I felt honour-bound to refuse to eat them. It was such a painful experience though - knowing that they were in my parents' freezer, and knowing that my parents were very keen to cook them for me, but I stuck to my principles (same applies to turtle eggs when I'm in Malaysia)! IIRC, my parents actually visited an "abalone farm" in Tasmania a number of years ago - some enterprising Chinese man was trying to commercially farm abalone.

BTW, there's a shop in Melbourne Chinatown which ***specializes exclusively in abalone***!!! It's (unsurprisingly) not a very BIG shop, but it's full of every single abalone product one can think of: dried, canned, pickled in bottles, the shells as paperweights and ashtrays, folding wooden screens with abalone-shell inlay, etc, etc.

AndrewAndrew
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby AndrewAndrew » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:13 am

See http://rasamalaysia.com/which-is-your-favorite-clams/ . The only ones I am familiar with eating are the la-la and the si-ham (cockles).

SimL
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby SimL » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:59 pm

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for posting - beautiful pictures. But agonizing to look at when one isn't able to get these dishes any more :mrgreen:.

xng
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby xng » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:39 am

niuc wrote: also ink in Thai is "mək" -> 墨 "mo, mok, bek, bik, bak, ...". Don't you think that languages from different families can be related somehow? Is it only through loanwords, or can be something more fundamental?


China invented paper and ink, so this is most probably a borrowed sinitic word.

amhoanna
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby amhoanna » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:53 pm

I think our lala, lâi'á and lâ'á are one and the same. Goá oânná khah ài cia̍h ô'á. :mrgreen:

A common 歇後語 (I forget the Hoklo word, but I think that's what they're called in Mand) in TW is: "Bong lâ'á kiam sé khò͘: it kiam jī kò͘." The second part is usually left out.

What is Hokkien term for Hatyai? I heard of hap8-cai1 but not sure if that is accurate.


Tio̍h! This is pretty cool. I found that a lot of Sg/M'sians on the web refer to Hatyai 合艾 exclusively as Hapcai or Hapchai 合斋 when speaking English and probably Malay too. To me, that just had "Hokkien!" written all over it. Pretty amazing, in this day and age, but it shows how strong the old Hokkien networks were. Seems that Hapcai Hokkiens call it Hapcai too. There's a blog post where the blogger was at the dentist's office (prob. in M'sia) and started talking about Hatyai, and her dentist, who comes from Hapcai, told her to get with the program and call it Hapcai, like everyone else :lol:

niuc
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby niuc » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:24 am

From the link posted by Andrew, the first "kepah" is what we call kap4-pa1, the third is lai5-a0 (lala). There the second one is named as "siput", but "siput" is snail in Malay.

Amhoanna, glad to know that! So it is indeed Hap8-cai1. I wasn't sure because it is spelled Hatyai in English and also 合艾 in Mandarin.

SimL
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby SimL » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:42 am

niuc wrote:There the second one is named as "siput", but "siput" is snail in Malay.

I don't know how I could have forgotten "si1-put8". One of the most wonderful memories of my childhood: on many weekends, my parents and we three kids would go to one of the famous Penang beaches - Tanjong Tokong, Tanjong Bungah, or Batu Ferringhi - and picnic, swim, AND DIG FOR SIPUT. Once we got back home, they would be left in sea-water overnight, so that they would extrude all their sand, and the next day (or later), they would be fried with light soy sauce and ginger strips. Absolutely delicious! In those days, of course, these three beaches were just quiet, secluded affairs: the whole coastline was just low trees and bushes, with some 1- or 2-storey (beach-)houses or bungalows among them. From anywhere along the coastal road, you could see the sea sparkling behind the vegetation. NOT the multi-storey hotel complexes of nowadays.

In Penang Hokkien (at least, in my family), "si1-put8" meant specifically these colourful bivalves. The way the picture of them is captioned in the link provided by Andrew would imply that the author used the word in this specialized sense also.

Ah-bin
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby Ah-bin » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:38 am

The La-la are very close to what I would call pipis. My brother and I went digging for them as well, looking for the tell-tale holes in the sand they made in the wet sand after the tide had gone out. We didn't live by the sea, and were a bit ignorant about these things we didn't leave them to soak long enough unfortunately the first time, so they made for rather a gritty meal.

MacGowan had "than" for mussels and the character 蟶 with a little circle beside it to show that it was not the original character.

SimL
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby SimL » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:41 pm

Hi Ah-bin,

The term "pipi" is also known in Australia (well, in Darwin, in any case). We used it there to indicate one of the local clam-shaped shellfish, about 1.5 to 2 cm across. However, they had a considerably thicker shell than the shellfish in the la-la etc photos.

amhoanna
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Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby amhoanna » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:02 pm

Just came across this entry in the Tâi-Ji̍t Toā (http://taigi.fhl.net/dict/index.html):

chio̍h-pà [石壩] 石原。

Related:

chio̍h-po͘ [石埔] 石原。

BTW the TJT is a Hoklo-only (Hoklo to Hoklo) online dictionary based on a major colonial Hoklo-Japanese dictionary... Every entry links to a scan of the corresponding page in the Hoklo-Japanese original.

SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Hokkien words in Thai

Postby SimL » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:55 am

SimL wrote:Hi Ah-bin,

The term "pipi" is also known in Australia (well, in Darwin, in any case). We used it there to indicate one of the local clam-shaped shellfish, about 1.5 to 2 cm across. However, they had a considerably thicker shell than the shellfish in the la-la etc photos.

On my most recent visit to my parents, they cooked pipis for me. Apparently, they are now available from commercial fishshops (and fisheries) in Australia.

I learnt of an interesting linguistic snippet regarding pipis. For as long as my parents have been in Australia, they've known this shellfish by the term "pipi", but nowadays, there's a new term "vongole". Putting this into Google yields hundreds of images of pipis. I venture the opinion that the use of this term "vongole" in Australia is a marketing ploy, to give the shellfish a more "upmarket", "sophisticated" sound. It's probably from the Italian "vongola", plural "vongole", but from the Italian Wikipedia, it would appear - I clicked on lots of 'vongola-related' links - that "vongola" in Italian means *any* sort of bivalve-ish shell fish (or at least, a whole lot of different, only distantly related ones). [But perhaps "pipi" does the same in Australian English...]

http://www.google.com.br/images?um=1&hl=pt-br&biw=1296&bih=590&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=vongole&aq=f&aqi=g4&aql=&oq=


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