Literary vs. Colloquial pronunciation of numbers

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Literary vs. Colloquial pronunciation of numbers

Postby SimL » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:45 am

I just noticed that in MacGowan, a number of the compounds are given as having the pronunciation sam3 instead of sam1.

三三 sàm-sàm: Matted (as hair).
三思 sàm-su: Meditate, contemplate, ponder, revolve in one's mind, deliberate.
糊三 hÔ-sàm: Ill-made.
在先三思 taī seng sàm su: Premeditate.

Does anyone know these terms from their own usage? Does anyone know why they have a different tone?

niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Literary vs. Colloquial pronunciation of numbers

Postby niuc » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:11 am

Hi Sim

三 is definitely sam1, not sam3. 三思 is sam1-sy1/su1, not sam3-sy1/su1, meaning to think of something again and again before deciding (三思而後行).

三三 sàm-sàm: Matted (as hair). 糊三 hÔ-sàm: Ill-made.

Yes, sam3 or sam3-sam3 has that meaning, but I don't think its hanji is 三.

在先三思 taī seng sàm su: Premeditate.

在 there should be cai7 and 三 is sam1. Alternatively, tai7 there is not 在, but tai7 in tai7-ci3 (often written as 代誌, some argue for 事事 -> 事 sy7 having other pronunciations tai7 and ci3).

niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Literary vs. Colloquial pronunciation of numbers

Postby niuc » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:17 am

SimL wrote:I did remember it, but the search (advanced or otherwise) doesn't work for me. Even when I try it now, with all the variants of "kaypoh", "ke1-po5", "busybody", etc, I still only get the latest postings. I've had this problem before. Perhaps it can't find any postings which were made before the transfer to the new site...?

Hi Sim

Yup, I couldn't find either. The earliest post in this new site was from 2002, however apparently those posted before the move are not included in the search index.

SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Literary vs. Colloquial pronunciation of numbers

Postby SimL » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:34 am

Hi Niuc,

Thanks a lot for the feedback on "sam3". I guess we should be suspicious of all the "sam3" ones listed under 三 in MacGowan then. As with the discussion on "khi-hong", we see what a tricky matter assigning of characters to Hokkien words can sometimes be. Same with "tai-ci" etc...

As for the indexing - yes, it's sad that the old entries aren't searchable. I would have thought ke-po was after 2002, but my memory is very vague on this. One day I'm going to extract all the major topics into one single directory (I presently have bits and pieces scattered through many directories), so that I can search them using the regular Windows-search function!

Aurelio
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:41 am

Re: Literary vs. Colloquial pronunciation of numbers

Postby Aurelio » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:38 am

Hi guys,

Was this the thread you were looking for?

http://www.chinalanguage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1605&sid=8ac6a4d0b34e2f0789acc0c5702b466f

I found it via google ...

Cheers,
Aurelio

SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Literary vs. Colloquial pronunciation of numbers

Postby SimL » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:25 pm

Hi Aurelio,

Yes indeed, this was the thread I was thinking of. Thanks, pretty smart thinking, using Google! :mrgreen:.

Ah-bin
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Re: Literary vs. Colloquial pronunciation of numbers

Postby Ah-bin » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:27 am

I'll add this one that I learnt today:

五仁 Ngó·-jîn - a kind of filling for a mooncake made from various mixed nuts and seeds


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