Penang Hokkien

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:33 am

禃 means 专一 single mind.If anyone has that 13-volume( 22vol or cdrom version) of hanyudacidian from china,please check this word along with 蜀

Tang Loon Kong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby Tang Loon Kong » Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:55 am

Hi Ladies and Gentlemen

How are you good people?

I have come across something interesting. Maybe some of the best dictionaries would leave this out.

The songs and music that were created during the reign of Qin Shih Huang Ti, the first emperor of China were called "Qin" song. Now, look at the similarities that the coincidence of the English "song" and the Qin "song" bring about. Anyway, the Qin "song" according to what I understand is some sort of anthem.

It begs a good explanation.

Thank you

Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China

tangoloonokongo
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Shanghai, China

Postby tangoloonokongo » Tue May 10, 2005 12:15 pm

:twisted: :roll: Hi Ladies and Gentlemen,

I see that this section of the forum have been too quiet for some time.

Where have all the hot participants gone to?

Well, here another Chinese word: "cha men" when converted to Penang Hokkien, it becomes "ka mui" which is very close to "kami" in Malay. The Chinese, Hokkien, and Malay versions mean 'we' in English.

Let us see if there any takers for these words, and restart its former vigour.

Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China
Let us all have a well deserved discussion and debate like gentlemen.

hong

Postby hong » Tue May 10, 2005 12:54 pm

Tang,You didn't say what is chamen and you expect people to answer you.Just what do you what to learn about minnan?You post about Qinshihuang,what the hell it has to do with min language?
I think I have to say something rude,sorry

Guest

Postby Guest » Wed May 11, 2005 3:53 am

Hi Hong

You are as usual wrong when you leap into the unknown depths of your ignorance. Chamen means 'We', and I did say that in my last post. Next time read very carefully, because these are what you eyes are for.

As for the word 'song', this word is an ancient word, and therefore it is very likely that this word could be used by the entire country (the Hookiens included) since Shih Huang Ti conquered and united China more than two thousand years ago.

By the way, what language do you think Shih Huang Ti spoke? Not Mandarin, that is for sure. Go and find out for yourself, and please do not choke on your own ignorance because you rely too much on written material which can fossilise minds.

You have disgraced the Hokkien community because you have used the 'four' letter word. We are supposed to be dicussing in a forum in a gentlmenly manner.

You should be removed from this forum if I had any say with it.

Anyway it not worth pontificating to a person like you . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China

Casey

Postby Casey » Wed May 11, 2005 9:12 am

The correct pronounciation of 咱 们 in Hanyu Pinyin is za3 men2 (not "cha men" which might caused some confusion), meaning "we, us" inclusive of the people we are speaking to. The Minnan pronunciation of 咱 is "cam2", not "ka". The Minnan word for "we, us" is gun2 or guan2 元 ( 人 字 旁 )(exclusive of persons speaking to) or lan2 自 ( 人 字 旁 )(inclusive of persons speaking to). I do not think anybody has ever used "ka mui" in their conversation. If only gun2, guan2 or lan2 are being used in the common Minnan conversaton, there is no way that they could be related to the Malay word "kami".

hong

Postby hong » Wed May 11, 2005 9:36 am

Tang,
How do you expect us to learn minnan if not by studying books,can you sponsor us for two months trip to zhang/xia/quan to have practical experience from local people.Also to photocopy out print materials over there.
You keep on saying you are in Shanghai but you cannot contribute anything.You can post some part of out of print books by Prof.Mei and wu about wu and Min languages for us.If you are rich enough ,you can walk into bookmall in shanghai and send us some free minnan books.The book is not costly if you are a rich guy.
For you infomation,there are no min languages in Qin period.The first Minnan language started only during 三國 1800 years.The earliest is 粱安=南安currently.

tangoloonokongo
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Shanghai, China

Postby tangoloonokongo » Wed May 11, 2005 10:57 am

To Casey and others who are interested.

The meanings of 'kami' and 'kita' in Malay need to be explained more clearly. They are used in different contexts.

Both mean 'we' in English. But different kinds of 'we'.

To Hong

It is not quite profitable to come pilgrimming to Fujian to learn what is the 'real' Hokkien. As I have told this forum long time ago, the Hokkien dialect here would have changed due to unfavorable factors. We need to check out the 'Hokkien' diaspora at least in the South East Asia, where much of the original cultures are preserved.


Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China
Let us all have a well deserved discussion and debate like gentlemen.

Casey

Postby Casey » Wed May 11, 2005 11:27 am

Tang Loon Kong

From my limited knowledge of Malay language, "kami" (exclusive of people speaking to) and "kita" (inclusive of people speaking to) are different in their usage. This further proves my point of " 咱 们 " is definitely not "kami" because its usage is like "kita".

hong

Postby hong » Wed May 11, 2005 12:15 pm

Casey,you can't argue with him because for him every malay word is minnan.He is a guy who like to sit down and find out which word in other languages sounded like minnan.That is the way he learn minnan.

Sim

Handkerchief

Postby Sim » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:21 am

I didn't really want to start a new topic for this question, so I'm sticking it in here.

The word we use for "handkerchief" in Penang is "pan3 jiu5". However, my Amoy-speaking maternal relatives never called it this. Instead they used the word "chiu1 kun1". In my Mandarin lessons, I came across 手巾, which I suppose are the characters used to write the latter.

Does anyone know the characters for "pan3 jiu5"?

Sim.

BTW, I think my Amoy-speaking relatives called a "towel" a "cang7 cui1 kun1", a "bathing water cloth", but we only ever used the borrowed Malay word "tua3 la1".

At the risk of invoking the wrath of some readers of this Forum, I'll venture to also ask what the character for "cang5" (to bathe) is.

hong

Postby hong » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:34 pm

揉 is liu 5.
pan7 範﹐,it means cloth used for making cloth.
水 on top of 石 for cang5

hong

Postby hong » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:23 pm

Prof.Chiu's Singapore minnan dict put 班揉 。The meaning is not correct if my dict is not wrong .The sandhi is 1 to 7 for pan 班。
範 pan7 is just my idea .We just have to wait and see what he will put in his new dict as well as chiangchiu gov's dict.

Andrew

Postby Andrew » Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:58 am

Sim - don't be reticent about asking questions - the forum is a bit quiet at the moment. It'd be bad if everyone took their enquiries offline, as that's what this board is for.

Sim

Postby Sim » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:08 pm

Andrew wrote:Sim - don't be reticent about asking questions...


Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the encouraging words. No, I wouldn't go off-line. But I'm sometimes reluctant to post here because people react so aggressively to innocent questions. I guess that happens in all newsgroups and forums, but it does intimidate me.

My interest in Hokkien is as strong as ever, but has taken a bit of a back-seat to Mandarin in the last few weeks.

Regards,
Sim.


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