Penang Hokkien

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Aurelio

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby Aurelio » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:04 am

Hong:

Thanks for correcting: I did of course mean "cit", not "it" (which one could edit his posts after sending). Which Han word would that be connected to? I only know 蜀 as the kingdom of Shu ...

Regards,
Aurelio

hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:05 am

well,we should read this good online dict by Prof Yang.There will 3,4 and 5 edition soon
http://140.111.1.192/mandr/result/taihtm2 go to 编辑凡例---编辑原则---no.5 难用本字 will explain cit

Tang Loon Kong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby Tang Loon Kong » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:22 am

Hi Ladies and Gentlemen
Lu Lang Ho
Wa Si Tak Jit Pun Ho

Let us all get back into high gear.

I recently came across the existence of the Hokkien province as early as in the time of the Han Dyansty.

Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China

Eng Wai

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby Eng Wai » Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:13 am

I always think that Hokkien and Cantonese were properly assimilated into Han culture during Tang dynasty only, reason being the use of 唐 to describe their ethnicity (唐人街?唐山?唐人)。The Hokkien province during Han dynasty might be a newly acquired territory.

Aurelio mentioned beh (to want). It lets me think about beih sai (cannot). I think "beih" is "no", "sai" is "can" but it seems to me like I haven't used or associate "sai" for other words to mean “can”. So "sai" could be another non han vocabulary.

If tabo (husband) is 丈夫, then what is cabo? Is there any other words in Hookien that describe the male gender?

Eng Wai

hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:59 am

sai is surely a hanzi 使 .we can use it as chhe-sai = order someone. e-sai-tit=can. The word 丈夫 as man is from shanggu hanyu,later it become husband or dazhangfu for brave man.we can pronunce zhangfu as wen du in minnan as tiong hu for husband.You can hear this in minnan news even in malaysia

hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:03 pm

I still have doubts about the hanzi for caboo but I think boo is certainly this hanzi 姥

Eng Wai

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby Eng Wai » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:28 pm

Mmm, how about boo for 母?Why do you think 姥 is the correct hanzi? The ponounciation is so different.

Eng Wai

hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:02 am

go to online xiamen dict type in ,you will get boo for lau and meaning in guhanyu means woman but not old woman in mondern chinese.
fujian gets the name from fu=fuzhou,Jian-JianYang.So sourthen min is later than both of these.Our glory is in song period with quanzhou as the biggest harbor in the wolrd.

hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:15 am

Inhttp://www.sebc.com minnan story telling today,lamlu 男女mostly means son and daughter in minnan but not man and woman like putonghua.This is not the same in news report where lamlu means man and woman.

hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:17 am


Aurelio

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby Aurelio » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:05 am

Hi Hong!

Thanks for your reply and the link to the online Minnan dictionary. Great link!

Still don't understand the 蜀 = "cit" part, though. They explain that the character is 使用不便, but do not seem to mention how they came up with 蜀 = "cit" in the first place: or did I miss anything? For those interested, I copied the quote from the dictionary at the bottom of this message. Can anybody help?

Regards,
Aurelio

Here's the quote in question:

本字????,而因一字多音?於??,或?一般?h字??T用法差距?大者,本???谧诸^之下加?,建?改?襁m?的借音字、??字或通行的方言字??法。凡遇本字?用的情形,?槊鞅灸??栽谠?字???下使用本字,惟?於其他地方作?例或句例?r,均改???樗?ㄗh的借音字、??字或方言字。例如「蜀」字因使用不便,本??ㄗh?裼?????椤敢弧埂?槊鞅灸??甘瘛棺窒氯杂?it ?7?8一?,所??例仍用本字「蜀」。例如字?【蜀】第一??音?的?例「蜀?扇?谷杂谩甘瘛梗

【蜀】虫-7-13

(一) cit, cik

1.正整?档牡谝???的俊

「蜀?扇??it nng sann:一二三。

  惟?出?於其他字?之下作?樵~例?r,?t改???樗 建?之「一」。例如字?【跋】下的?例「跋一倒」用「一」:

【跋】足-5-12

ㄅㄨㄚpuah

跌倒。

  「跋一倒」puah cit to :跌一跤。

[%sig%]

hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:19 pm

I have no money to order from china for this set of journal for the article by Prof.Chiu
http://www.modernchinese.com/DingQi/din ... 44_581.htm

hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:28 pm

the ordering address is in wunan.http://yyyj.chinajournal.net.cn It seems that they did mention they can sell whole set until around 600 reminbi.The web site mentioned this is down

Niuc

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby Niuc » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:21 pm

One is chiq/chik/cikq... in Tibetan (http://www.zompist.com/sino.htm#sino ), so cit8 is of Sino-tibetan origin. 蜀 pronounced as cit8 may be related to 烛 cik4 (candle, the right part of this character in traditional font is 蜀). It's pronounced as siok8 for Shu Kingdom.

hong

Re: Penang Hokkien

Postby hong » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:14 am

No,I think we must wait until we have a chance to read Prof.Chiu's article on this.He writes about 禃 ,so it must be about shangguhanyu.


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