Expressing "again"

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Ah-bin
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Expressing "again"

Postby Ah-bin » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:21 am

Here's another grammatical pattern that I am not 100% sure how to express.

In Mandarin there are two words for "again", one used for the future 再 (and in negative past sentences), and one for the past 又.

I know Penang Hokkien has koh and koh-chai, both meaning "again", but can anyone tell me what the difference is between them?

How would you express these, for instance?

I want to go again 我要再去
(I guess Wa koh ai khi chit-tau, which would literally be "I still want to go one more time")

I didn't go again 我沒有再去
(this is the one I am most confused about)

I went again 我又去
(I guess Wa koh-chai khi liau)

I wonder if koh-chai is used in other varieties as well?

Thank you in advance for your help

amhoanna
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Expressing "again"

Postby amhoanna » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:33 am

Kohcài is used in TW. It has a "stronger" meaning than koh alone, but it's much less often heard. It's also used in the phrase "kohcài kóng" = FURTHERMORE.

AndrewAndrew
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:26 am

Re: Expressing "again"

Postby AndrewAndrew » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:01 am

Ah-bin wrote:How would you express these, for instance?

I want to go again 我要再去
(I guess Wa koh ai khi chit-tau, which would literally be "I still want to go one more time")

I didn't go again 我沒有再去
(this is the one I am most confused about)

I went again 我又去
(I guess Wa koh-chai khi liau)



I would say

Wa koh ai khi - I still want to go / I want to go again.

Wa bo chai khi - I didn't go again / I don't go anymore

Wa koh (u) khi - I went again
Wa koh (u) khi chit tau - I went once again
Wa u chai khi - I went again / I still go
Wa koh chai khi - i went AGAIN.

Just how I would say it: may not be entirely correct.

aokh1979
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Location: George Town, Malaysia
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Re: Expressing "again"

Postby aokh1979 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:46 pm

更 (kò), [音]コウ(カウ)(漢)

I say 更再 most of the time, I seldom or never use 再 alone. Have you ever used "iāu" ?

It's you again ? = 更再是汝?"iau" 是汝?

I am just not sure if "iau" is 又......

Ah-bin
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Re: Expressing "again"

Postby Ah-bin » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:58 pm

Thnak you all for these, I had forgotten about chài. It's very hard to write a rule for the difference. between chài and koh it seems, since it doesn't seem to be fixed like Mandarin (又 for past and present, 再 for future and negative past).

I am just not sure if "iau" is 又......


I wonder if it isn't 猶? The reason why I say it is because the "á-sī" meaning "still is" is pronounced "iáu-sī" in Taiwanese, and I always took the "á-sī" as an unstressed version of this.

更 (kò), [音]コウ(カウ)(漢)


I think this character is highly unlikely to be the original character, although the meaning fits to a certain extent. Here are my reasons for doubting it:

1) In most cases the final ウ relates back to a final -ng or a final -p. In this case we know that it is a final -ng, by its rhyme group, and the way it is pronounced in every other language (including Korean). A final -p here could correspond to a final -h in Hokkien, but it is extremely unlikely that this word had a final -p.

2) I have never heard anyone say "kò", only "koh" with a short vowel (even though the glottal stop is not easy to hear). It is not exactly the same as the 故 in 故事, if you compare "koh sī" = "still is" with "ko-sū" = "story", the second one is longer.

3) Anything with a final -h in Hokkien belongs to the early stratum of pronunciation that was contemporary with the go-on 吳音 that was borrowed into Japanese before the T'ang Dynasty. For koh you need to find a final チ,キ, or フ in the 吳音 pronunciation. Your example is the kan-on 漢音 which, despite its name, reflects the pronunciation of the mid-to-late T'ang as spoken at the capital. Even in the kan-on this would have to have a final ツ,ク, or フ to correspond to a Hokkien -h. The カウ in the original kana spelling stands for "kau" the Japanese attempt to write "kang", not kop/kok/kot.


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