Directions 往 and 向 in Penang Hokkien

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Ah-bin
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Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Directions 往 and 向 in Penang Hokkien

Postby Ah-bin » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:54 am

One of the last things I haven't sorted out in northern Malaysian Hokkien is the use of directional prepositions meaning "towards" or "facing"

Mandarin has 往 "to go in the direction of" and 向 "to face in the direction of" (I know there is 朝 as well)
Does Hokkien have two different prepositions corresponding to these two? Some of the Mandarin uses of 往are not really needed in Hokkien: "往哪裏去" is just "khì tó-lóh"

"He walked to the wall" is "I kiâⁿ kàu piák"

How would you say, for instance

"He faced the wall" ?
"He walked towards the wall" ?

The only quote I have at the moment for this is Bhante Dhammavudho quoting a Brahmin telling Buddha about a certain custom:

Wá-lâng pô-lô-bûn ê lâng ū án-ne-khoán ê hong-siók la, nā-sī wá-lâng ū chhin-chiâⁿ kòe-sin a, wá-lâng to mē•-mē• giâ i-ê sí-thé chhut khì gōa-kháu a, liáu giâ koân-koân a, hō• i hiòng thiⁿ, liáu hi-bāng i khoàⁿ tióh thiⁿ...

我儂菠蘿們个儂有安呢款个風俗啦,若是我儂有親情過身啊,我儂哆猛猛攑伊个屍體出去外口啊,了與伊向天,了希望伊看著天....

"We Brahmins have a custom like this, if one of our relations dies, we quickly take the body outside and hold it up high, and make it face towards Heaven, then we hope he/she can see Heaven...."

Douglas (p.134) has this "hiòng" but notes it as the literary reading, giving the colloquial as hiùⁿ, whoch would be hiàuⁿ in Penang.

de Gijzel has tùi for "towards", but that is a different meaning used for people's attitudes and behaviours towards others, or "as far as....is concerned" and (paradoxically) "from" in Taiwanese and Amoy Hokkien.

Mark Yong
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Re: Directions 往 and 向 in Penang Hokkien

Postby Mark Yong » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:55 am

From my experience, Penangites use hiōng specifically for 'facing towards'.

As for 'going towards', it is normally just 去【到】 khǐ-kău.

Therefore:
1. "He faced the wall"
伊向著壁。 ī hiōng tiău piăk.

2. "He walked towards the wall"
伊去【到】壁(位)。ī khǐ-kău piăk (ŭi).

The word is normally used in colloquial Penang Hokkien in 來往 "contact", I have seldom heard it used in other contexts for normal conversations.

Ah-bin
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Re: Directions 往 and 向 in Penang Hokkien

Postby Ah-bin » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:45 pm

Ah, well that would explain why I hadn't heard it! Thanks Mark.

It seems that "khì piák ê ūi" seems very much like the 往 construction, because it doesn't imply arrival at the wall, which would require the addition of kàu like so:
"khì kàu piák ê ūi"

The "ê ūi" I have thought about quite a bit, it seems to diffuse the exact position, turning "the wall" into the "the place where the wall is" or "by the wall".

aokh1979
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Location: George Town, Malaysia
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Re: Directions 往 and 向 in Penang Hokkien

Postby aokh1979 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:18 pm

The word "towards" is used as 對 in Penang Hokkien.

伊對著 Komtar 彼旁去。
He is going towards where Komtar is.

Such usage is not really heard everyday, but it is how some elderly in Penang say......

AndrewAndrew
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:26 am

Re: Directions 往 and 向 in Penang Hokkien

Postby AndrewAndrew » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:18 am

aokh1979 wrote:The word "towards" is used as 對 in Penang Hokkien.

伊對著 Komtar 彼旁去。
He is going towards where Komtar is.

Such usage is not really heard everyday, but it is how some elderly in Penang say......


Sorry, what is this in pehoeji?

siamiwako
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 4:21 am

Re: Directions 往 and 向 in Penang Hokkien

Postby siamiwako » Sun May 22, 2011 4:33 am

AndrewAndrew wrote:
aokh1979 wrote:The word "towards" is used as 對 in Penang Hokkien.

伊對著 Komtar 彼旁去。
He is going towards where Komtar is.

Such usage is not really heard everyday, but it is how some elderly in Penang say......


Sorry, what is this in pehoeji?


Colloqualism?


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