Connecting Two Events in Penang Hokkien

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Ah-bin
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Connecting Two Events in Penang Hokkien

Postby Ah-bin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:14 am

Here are a whole lot of sentences that I have constructed after a lot of listening and analysis of spoken Penang Hokkien. I thought they might be useful as a reference for how to sue certain particles to create longer and more complcated sentences, without resorting to English constructions such as "before" and "after". I'm interested in finding out whether these sentence patterns are natural, or simply the result of my imagination working overtime making rules and patterns where there are none. I'd be very grateful for criticism and comments. A and B refer to events

When one happens after the other
A, to B – if A then B, when A, B
Wá mūi i, i to khí-hông
If I ask him, he gets angry/When I ask(ed) him, he gets/got angry/I asked him.
I kàu, wá to túiⁿ khì
When he arrives, I go home. When he arrived/arrives, I go/went home.
Wá chiáh míh-kiàⁿ to khùn khì
If I eat something, then I’ll go to sleep.

A ê-sî to B – while A then B
Wá mūi i ê-sî, i to khí-hông
When I was asking him, he got angry.
I kàu ê-sî, wá to túiⁿ khì
When he arrived, I went home. When he arrives, I’ll go home.

Ná-sī A to B – if A then B
Ná-sī wá mūi i, i to khí-hông
If I were to ask him, he would get angry.
Ná-sī i kàu, wá to túiⁿ khì
If he comes, then I’ll go home.

A ka B – not unless A then B, only if A, then B
Wá mūi i, i ka khí-hông
He’ll only get angry if I ask him. He won’t get angry unless I ask him.
I kàu, wá ka túiⁿ khì
I won’t go home until he arrives/I’ll only go home when he arrives.
Wá chiáh míh-kiàⁿ ka khùn khì
I won’t go to sleep unless I eat something.


Chít-ē•A to B, as soon as A, B
Wá chít-ē• mūi i, i to khí-hông
As soon as I asked him he got angry
I chít-ē• kàu, wá to túiⁿ khì
As soon as he arrived, I went home.

A, pún (NEG) B, even if/even when, not B
Wá mūi i, i pún bē khí-hông
Even if I ask him, he won’t get angry
I kàu, wá pún bē túiⁿ khì
Even if he arrives, I shan’t go home.
Wá chiáh liáu pún bē khùn khì
Even if I finish eating it I won’t be fall asleep.

Wá mūi i, i pún bô khí-hông
Even when I asked him, he didn’t get angry
I kàu, wá pún bô túiⁿ khì
Even when he arrived, I didn’t go home.
Wá chiáh liáu pún bô khùn khì
Even after eating it I didn’t fall asleep.


When one thing happens before the other

Á-bōe A (ê-sî) to B – Before A, B
Wá á-bōe mūi i (ê-sî), i to khí-hông
Before I had asked him, he got angry. He got angry before I had asked him.
I á-bōe kàu (ê-sî), wá to túiⁿ khì
I went home before he arrived.
Wá á-bōe chiáh to khùn khì
I fell asleep before eating it.

Á-bōe A ê-sî í-keng/to B liáu – Before A, already B
Wá á-bōe mūi i ê-sî, i í-keng khí-hông liáu
Before I had asked him, he was already got angry.
I á-bōe kàu ê-sî, wá í-keng túiⁿ khì liáu
I went home before he arrived.
Wá á-bōe chiáh ê-sî í-keng khùn khì liáu
I fell asleep before I had eaten it.

Á-bōe A liáu2 ê-sî í-keng/to B liáu1 – Before A, already B
Wá á-bōe mūi liáu i ê-sî, i í-keng khí-hông liáu.
Before I had finished asking him, he had already become angry.
Wá á-bōe chiáh liáu ê-sî í-keng khùn khì liáu.
I had already fallen asleep before I finished eating it.

Beh A ê-sî to B – about to A, B/A when B was going to happen
Wá beh mūi i (ê-sî), i to khí-hông
He got angry as I was about to ask him.
I beh kàu (ê-sî), wá to túiⁿ khì
I went home as he was about to arrive.
Wá bē chiáh (ê-sî) to khùn khì
I fell asleep when I was going to eat it.

Completion of the verb in the event occurring first with liáu
A liáu…to B – After A is finished then B; A, then B
Wá mūi i liáu, i to khí-hông
He got angry after I asked him./I asked him and he got angry
I kàu liáu, wá to túiⁿ khì
After he arrived, I left./He arrived and I went home.
If the subject of the two clauses is the same, the pronoun does not need to be repeated.
Wá chiáh liáu to khùn khì
After I’d eaten it I fell asleep.

This last sentence is ambiguous, depending on whether liáu1 (new situation) or liáu2 (completion) is intended.

Wá chiáh míh-kiàⁿ liáu, to khùn khì
I ate something then went to sleep.

Wá chiáh liáu míh-kiàⁿ, to khùn khì
I’ll finish eating then go to sleep.


A liáu ka B – B doesn’t happen unless A has finished happening, not A until B
Wá mūi i liáu, i ka khí-hông
He didn’t get angry until after I had asked him
I kàu liáu, wá ka túiⁿ khì
I didn’t leave until he arrived.
Wá chiáh liáu ka khùn khì
I didn’t fall asleep until after eating it.

This last sentence is ambiguous, depending on whether liáu1 (new situation) or liáu2 (completion) is intended.
Wá chiáh míh-kiàⁿ liáu, ka khùn khì
I won’t go to sleep until I’ve eaten something.

Wá chiáh liáu míh-kiàⁿ, ka khùn khì
I won’t go to sleep until I finish eating.

Chít-ē•A liáu to B, as soon as A has/had happened or is/was finished, B
Wá chít-ē• mūi I liáu, i to khí-hông. As soon as you’ve asked him, he’ll get angry
As soon as I had asked him he got angry
I chít-ē• kàu liáu, wá to túiⁿ khì
As soon as he had arrived, I went home. As soon has he has arrived, I’ll go home
Wá chít-ē• chiáh liáu to khùn khì
As soon as I had eaten it I fell asleep.

Á-bōe A liáu (ê-sî) to B – Before finishing A, B
Wá á-bōe mūi liáu i (ê-sî), i to khí-hông
Before I had finished asked him, he got angry. He got angry before I had asked him.
I á-bōe kàu liáu (ê-sî), wá to túiⁿ khì
I went home before he had arrived. (this one is odd, because one cannot “finish arriving”)
Wá á-bōe chiáh liáu to khùn khì
I fell asleep before I had finished eating it.

Beh A liáu ê-sî to B – about to finish A, then B
Wá beh mūi liáu i (ê-sî), i to khí-hông
He got angry as I was about to finish ask him.
I beh kàu liáu (ê-sî), wá to túiⁿ khì
I went home as he was about to arrive.
Wá beh chiáh liáu to khùn khì
I fell asleep as I was about to finish eating it.

AndrewAndrew
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:26 am

Re: Connecting Two Events in Penang Hokkien

Postby AndrewAndrew » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:58 am

Ah-bin wrote:When one happens after the other
A, to B – if A then B, when A, B
Wá mūi i, i to khí-hông
If I ask him, he gets angry/When I ask(ed) him, he gets/got angry/I asked him.
I kàu, wá to túiⁿ khì
When he arrives, I go home. When he arrived/arrives, I go/went home.
Wá chiáh míh-kiàⁿ to khùn khì
If I eat something, then I’ll go to sleep.


Seems a bit uncomfortable, would sound better with liáu or ê-sî after A.

A ê-sî to B – while A then B
Wá mūi i ê-sî, i to khí-hông
When I was asking him, he got angry.
I kàu ê-sî, wá to túiⁿ khì
When he arrived, I went home. When he arrives, I’ll go home.


Fine

Ná-sī A to B – if A then B
Ná-sī wá mūi i, i to khí-hông
If I were to ask him, he would get angry.
Ná-sī i kàu, wá to túiⁿ khì
If he comes, then I’ll go home.


Uncomfortable, probably because I don't like nā-sī in front.

A ka B – not unless A then B, only if A, then B
Wá mūi i, i ka khí-hông
He’ll only get angry if I ask him. He won’t get angry unless I ask him.
I kàu, wá ka túiⁿ khì
I won’t go home until he arrives/I’ll only go home when he arrives.
Wá chiáh míh-kiàⁿ ka khùn khì
I won’t go to sleep unless I eat something.


Maybe needs a niā or liáu after A.

Chít-ē•A to B, as soon as A, B
Wá chít-ē• mūi i, i to khí-hông
As soon as I asked him he got angry
I chít-ē• kàu, wá to túiⁿ khì
As soon as he arrived, I went home.


Works well.

A, pún (NEG) B, even if/even when, not B
Wá mūi i, i pún bē khí-hông
Even if I ask him, he won’t get angry
I kàu, wá pún bē túiⁿ khì
Even if he arrives, I shan’t go home.
Wá chiáh liáu pún bē khùn khì
Even if I finish eating it I won’t be fall asleep.


Again, needs nā in the first example, liáu in the second. Bē in the second sounds like 'cannot' rather than 'shan't'. Better bô.

Wá mūi i, i pún bô khí-hông
Even when I asked him, he didn’t get angry
I kàu, wá pún bô túiⁿ khì
Even when he arrived, I didn’t go home.
Wá chiáh liáu pún bô khùn khì
Even after eating it I didn’t fall asleep.


Needs ê-sî or liáu.

When one thing happens before the other

Á-bōe A (ê-sî) to B – Before A, B
Wá á-bōe mūi i (ê-sî), i to khí-hông
Before I had asked him, he got angry. He got angry before I had asked him.
I á-bōe kàu (ê-sî), wá to túiⁿ khì
I went home before he arrived.
Wá á-bōe chiáh to khùn khì
I fell asleep before eating it.


Needs liáu after B.

Á-bōe A ê-sî í-keng/to B liáu – Before A, already B
Wá á-bōe mūi i ê-sî, i í-keng khí-hông liáu
Before I had asked him, he was already got angry.
I á-bōe kàu ê-sî, wá í-keng túiⁿ khì liáu
I went home before he arrived.
Wá á-bōe chiáh ê-sî í-keng khùn khì liáu
I fell asleep before I had eaten it.


Would also be fine without the í-keng.

Á-bōe A liáu2 ê-sî í-keng/to B liáu1 – Before A, already B
Wá á-bōe mūi liáu i ê-sî, i í-keng khí-hông liáu.
Before I had finished asking him, he had already become angry.
Wá á-bōe chiáh liáu ê-sî í-keng khùn khì liáu.
I had already fallen asleep before I finished eating it.


Don't think this works. Replace í-keng with to.

Beh A ê-sî to B – about to A, B/A when B was going to happen
Wá beh mūi i (ê-sî), i to khí-hông
He got angry as I was about to ask him.
I beh kàu (ê-sî), wá to túiⁿ khì
I went home as he was about to arrive.
Wá bē chiáh (ê-sî) to khùn khì
I fell asleep when I was going to eat it.


Fine.

Completion of the verb in the event occurring first with liáu
A liáu…to B – After A is finished then B; A, then B
Wá mūi i liáu, i to khí-hông
He got angry after I asked him./I asked him and he got angry
I kàu liáu, wá to túiⁿ khì
After he arrived, I left./He arrived and I went home.
If the subject of the two clauses is the same, the pronoun does not need to be repeated.
Wá chiáh liáu to khùn khì
After I’d eaten it I fell asleep.


Fine

This last sentence is ambiguous, depending on whether liáu1 (new situation) or liáu2 (completion) is intended.

Wá chiáh míh-kiàⁿ liáu, to khùn khì
I ate something then went to sleep.

Wá chiáh liáu míh-kiàⁿ, to khùn khì
I’ll finish eating then go to sleep.


A liáu ka B – B doesn’t happen unless A has finished happening, not A until B
Wá mūi i liáu, i ka khí-hông
He didn’t get angry until after I had asked him
I kàu liáu, wá ka túiⁿ khì
I didn’t leave until he arrived.
Wá chiáh liáu ka khùn khì
I didn’t fall asleep until after eating it.


Fine.

This last sentence is ambiguous, depending on whether liáu1 (new situation) or liáu2 (completion) is intended.
Wá chiáh míh-kiàⁿ liáu, ka khùn khì
I won’t go to sleep until I’ve eaten something.

Wá chiáh liáu míh-kiàⁿ, ka khùn khì
I won’t go to sleep until I finish eating.

Chít-ē•A liáu to B, as soon as A has/had happened or is/was finished, B
Wá chít-ē• mūi I liáu, i to khí-hông. As soon as you’ve asked him, he’ll get angry
As soon as I had asked him he got angry
I chít-ē• kàu liáu, wá to túiⁿ khì
As soon as he had arrived, I went home. As soon has he has arrived, I’ll go home
Wá chít-ē• chiáh liáu to khùn khì
As soon as I had eaten it I fell asleep.


Fine.

Á-bōe A liáu (ê-sî) to B – Before finishing A, B
Wá á-bōe mūi liáu i (ê-sî), i to khí-hông
Before I had finished asked him, he got angry. He got angry before I had asked him.
I á-bōe kàu liáu (ê-sî), wá to túiⁿ khì
I went home before he had arrived. (this one is odd, because one cannot “finish arriving”)
Wá á-bōe chiáh liáu to khùn khì
I fell asleep before I had finished eating it.


Fine.

Beh A liáu ê-sî to B – about to finish A, then B
Wá beh mūi liáu i (ê-sî), i to khí-hông
He got angry as I was about to finish ask him.
I beh kàu liáu (ê-sî), wá to túiⁿ khì
I went home as he was about to arrive.
Wá beh chiáh liáu to khùn khì
I fell asleep as I was about to finish eating it.


I think the 'liáu ê sî' phrase is quite common, and should be used here. Don't like the 'mūi liáu i' construction. I would reverse liáu and i.

Ah-bin
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Re: Connecting Two Events in Penang Hokkien

Postby Ah-bin » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:57 am

Thanks for the wonderful feedback, Andrew! That is just what I needed.


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