3 third tones in a row

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milse
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 10:55 am
Location: beijing

3 third tones in a row

Postby milse » Thu May 31, 2007 11:27 am

Hi,

Anybody know how three third tones in a row are pronounced? The second one becomes a second tone, right? I haven't actually attended mandarin classes for years, so I've forgotten these little things.

And I was looking this up online and I saw something about a half third tone before a fourth tone. This definitely wasn't something they taught when I was in school. Man, I feel so old. (Actually the half third tone made sense when I tried some examples: like ke3pa4.)

Thanks.

大家好,

三个三声放在一起怎么发音?第二个要变成一个二声,对吧?我好久没上国语的课,就忘了这样的小事情。

哦,我在网上查了这个事情,就碰到了文章写着四声之前要有个半三声。不知道这是什么。我上学时一定没有这样教我们。我噻,就感觉很老了。(其实,试一试一些例子之后,就发现这个半三声有意义。比如说:可怕。)

谢谢啦。

milse
There's a bluebird in my heart, but I'm too tough for him.

duaaagiii
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:17 am

Postby duaaagiii » Thu May 31, 2007 9:52 pm

It really depends on the phrasing structure.
In the following examples, a*b means that a tone change occurs from tone a to tone b.

你可好 ni3 ke3*2 hao3
我可以 wo3 ke3*2 yi3
可以有 ke3*2 yi3*2 you3
好女子 hao3 nv3*2 zi3 or zi3*0
祖母好 zu3*2 mu3*2 hao3
有手有腳 you3*2 shou3 you3*2 jiao3
可有此事 ke*2 you3*2 ci3 shi4
豈有此理 qi3*2 you3 ci3*2 li3

duaaagiii
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:17 am

Postby duaaagiii » Thu May 31, 2007 10:12 pm

The third tone is generally pronounced as a full third tone only at the end of sentences or certain phrasings, and as a half third tone in all other cases (unless a tone change occurs). In Taiwan, the full third tone is rarely if ever used at all.

milse
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 10:55 am
Location: beijing

Postby milse » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:34 am

So if you were trying to teach somebody Chinese, what would you tell them about how the third tone changes? All the examples you gave make sense to me, but, as you said, there doesn't seem to be a strict rule. I noticed myself when I was trying to help people with their Chinese that a lot of the ways I pronounced the third tone depended a lot on the context. This wasn't a very useful comment to the person who was trying to learn off me, though. Is this just something you get a sense of as time goes on?

Thanks again, your answer's been really helpful.
There's a bluebird in my heart, but I'm too tough for him.

duaaagiii
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:17 am

Postby duaaagiii » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:14 am

You're welcome. There's only one observation I can think of that might qualify as a rule: it seems like compounds are treated independently.

For example, in the compounds 女子, 祖母, and 可以, and the first character always goes through a tone change regardless if the final character goes through a tone change or not. Whether or not the final character in a compound goes through a tone change depends on what follows it.

你[可好] ni3 ke3*2 hao3
我[可以] wo3 ke3*2 yi3
[可以]有 ke3*2 yi3*2 you3
好[女子] hao3 nv3*2 zi3 or zi3*0
[祖母]好 zu3*2 mu3*2 hao3
有手有腳 you3*2 shou3 you3*2 jiao3
[可有][此事] ke*2 you3*2 ci3 shi4
豈有[此理] qi3*2 you3 ci3*2 li3

milse
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 10:55 am
Location: beijing

Postby milse » Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:17 am

Thanks again.
There's a bluebird in my heart, but I'm too tough for him.

pothio
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:56 am

Re: 3 third tones in a row

Postby pothio » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:58 am

I saw something about a half third tone before a fourth tone. This definitely wasn't something they taught when I was in school.
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