Loquat

Discussions on the Cantonese language.
Kobo-Daishi

Loquat

Postby Kobo-Daishi » Mon May 05, 2003 8:37 pm

Dear all,

What are the characters for loquat?

Could you please provide the Cantonese romanization too. In Taishanese we would call it "LOUH WEUHT". Sorry for the weird romanization.

Thank you.

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

Thomas Chan

Re: Loquat

Postby Thomas Chan » Mon May 05, 2003 10:41 pm

Kobo-Daishi wrote:
> What are the characters for loquat?
> Could you please provide the Cantonese romanization too. In
> Taishanese we would call it "LOUH WEUHT". Sorry for the weird
> romanization.

It's lou4gwat1 櫨橘.


Thomas Chan
tc31@cornell.edu

[%sig%]

Kobo-Daishi

Re: Loquat

Postby Kobo-Daishi » Tue May 13, 2003 10:10 am

Dear Thomas,

Thank you for your reply.

A Taiwanese woman had given me some loquats and I had asked her what she called them in Chinese. She only knew 枇杷 (Mand: pi2 pa2, Cant: pei4 pa4) for “loquat”.

I knew that “loquat” was derived from Cantonese but couldn’t find the characters in any Chinese-English dictionaries. I only found 枇杷.

Do you know if “loquats” are called 枇杷 because they are shaped like the Chinese lute, the pipa 紫] (Mand: pi2 pa2, Cant: pei4 pa4)?

Also, what Chinese-English dictionary do you think is the best available? Either in print or as software?

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

P. S. In Taishanese the “loquat” and the “pipa” are also called “pei pa”.

Radagasty

Re: Loquat

Postby Radagasty » Tue May 13, 2003 1:51 pm

Kobo-Daishi wrote:

> Also, what Chinese-English dictionary do you think is the best
> available? Either in print or as software?

It does not contain Cantonese pronunciations, but, IMHO, the 遠東漢英大辭典 is one of the best Chinese-English dictionaries around.

Sebastian.

Kobo-Daishi

Re: Loquat

Postby Kobo-Daishi » Fri May 23, 2003 7:32 am

Dear Radagasty,

> It does not contain Cantonese pronunciations, but, IMHO, the 遠東漢英大辭典 is one of the best Chinese-English dictionaries around.

Yes, the 遠東漢英大辭典 (Mand: yuan3 dong1 han4 ying1 da4 ci2 dian3, Cant: yun5 dung1 hon3 ying1 daai6 chi4 din2) is a very good Chinese-English dictionary.

It is much better than the “Concise Chinese-English English-Chinese Dictionary” published jointly by the Commercial Press and the Oxford University Press even though it doesn’t include simplified characters, which the CCEECD does.

In the CCEECD, they don’t include most country names or most things related to countries. For example in the English-Chinese section they don’t include China or Chinese but do include English (the language). In the Chinese-English section they don’t include France, French, Italian, Italy, German, Germany, etc.

Unfortunately, the Far East dictionary doesn’t have 櫨橘 (Mand: lu2 ju2, Cant: lou4 gwat1) meaning “loquat”. I guess the word is only used in Cantonese dialects.

The Far East does include 金橘 (Mand: jin1 ju2, Cant: gam1 gwat1) the “kumquat” but they spell it "cumquat" while it doesn’t have 金桔 (Mand: jin1 ju2, gam1 gat1) which I think is also the “kumquat”.

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

Thomas Chan

Re: Loquat

Postby Thomas Chan » Fri May 23, 2003 5:33 pm

Kobo-Daishi wrote:
> Unfortunately, the Far East dictionary doesn’t have 櫨橘
> (Mand: lu2 ju2, Cant: lou4 gwat1) meaning “loquat”. I guess
> the word is only used in Cantonese dialects.

I actually found that in Meyer and Wempe's _The Student's Cantonese-
English Dictionary_, 3rd ed. (1947). I haven't seen it elsewhere so far.


Thomas Chan
tc31@cornell.edu

[%sig%]

Kobo-Daishi

Re: Loquat

Postby Kobo-Daishi » Sat May 24, 2003 9:19 am

Dear Thomas,

> I actually found that in Meyer and Wempe's _The Student's Cantonese-
> English Dictionary_, 3rd ed. (1947). I haven't seen it elsewhere so far.

Using the characters that you supplied I looked them up in a 1972 reprint of “A Chinese-English Dictionary” by Herbert A. Giles. The dictionary was originally published in 1892 and revised & enlarged in 1912.

Looking under 櫨 I found this entry:

櫨橘 the loquat (Eriobotrya japonica). See 枇 9049.

Looking under 橘 I found this entry:

蘆 (or 櫨 or 盧 or 廬) 橘 the loquat (Eriobotrya japonica).

The dictionary also has:

金橘 the cumquat (Citrus japonica, Thbg.).

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

Dylan Sung

Re: Loquat

Postby Dylan Sung » Sat May 24, 2003 11:43 am

I seen it spelt kumquat.

Dyl

Thomas Chan

Re: Loquat

Postby Thomas Chan » Sat May 24, 2003 6:46 pm

Kobo-Daishi wrote:

> > I actually found that in Meyer and Wempe's _The Student's
> Cantonese-
> > English Dictionary_, 3rd ed. (1947). I haven't seen it
> elsewhere so far.
>
> Using the characters that you supplied I looked them up in a
> 1972 reprint of “A Chinese-English Dictionary” by Herbert A.
> Giles. The dictionary was originally published in 1892 and
> revised & enlarged in 1912.

I didn't know there was a recent reprint of Giles' dictionary. I've been
looking for a copy of Giles', and the 2nd editions (1912) are rather
expensive (haven't ever seen a 1st ed., not even in a library). Is it a
Taiwanese reprint?

Giles' does have some Cantonese and Hakka characters in it, I recall,
which would help explain why he'd have an actual "loquat" entry. Its
predecessor (as "the" Chinese-English dictionary) was Samuel Williams'
from the 1870s, which also included dialects (actually, it was an expanded
form of Williams' 1856 Cantonese dictionary), but Giles' successor, the
1930s Mathews', is devoid of anything but Mandarin.


Thomas Chan
tc31@cornell.edu

[%sig%]

Kobo-Daishi

Re: Loquat

Postby Kobo-Daishi » Wed May 28, 2003 10:02 pm

Dear Thomas,

>I didn't know there was a recent reprint of Giles' dictionary.
>I've been looking for a copy of Giles', and the 2nd editions (1912)
>are rather expensive (haven't ever seen a 1st ed., not even in a
>library). Is it a Taiwanese reprint?

Yes, it is a Taiwanese reprint by the Ch’eng-wen Publishing Co. P. O. Box 22605, Taipei, Taiwan, ROC

成文出版社有限公司
台北郵政信箱第22605號

I got it through Cheng & Tsui. http://www.cheng-tsui.com/

It costs $125.00 at their web site.

This is the description of the book from the site:

Price: $125.00
Author: H. A. Giles
Unit: Hdcr. (2 vol. in 1)
Still considered to be the best dictionary of its kind, this revised edition presents over 10,900 Chinese characters with romanization in Mandarin, Japanese, Korean, and ten other dialects. Characters are arranged alphabetically in the Wade-Giles system, and a radical index arranged by stroke order is provided. A large number of binomes and phrases are presented and translated, and many useful tables are included. An indispensable tool for students of poetry and classical Chinese. Reprint of 2nd edition of 1912 original. CW.

>Giles' does have some Cantonese and Hakka characters in it, I recall,
>which would help explain why he'd have an actual "loquat" entry.

I don’t know which characters are specifically Hakka but the book does include character readings in 10 Chinese dialects (Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka, Foochow, Wenchow, Ningpo, Peking, Mid-China, Yangchow and Ssuch’uan) as well as in Korean, Japanese and Annamese (Vietnamese).

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

Thomas Chan

Re: Loquat

Postby Thomas Chan » Wed May 28, 2003 11:23 pm

Kobo-Daishi wrote:

> >library). Is it a Taiwanese reprint?
>
> Yes, it is a Taiwanese reprint by the Ch’eng-wen Publishing

Thanks for the pointer. I had been wondering about the version that
Cheng & Tsui was selling, since it bore a Taiwan ISBN (957-), signaling
it was a reprint of some kind. $125 doesn't sound bad, when an original
runs at least $500 or so. What're the dimensions like? I have an original
of the 2nd edition of Eitel and Genahr's Cantonese dictionary, published
almost contemporaneously with Giles 2nd ed. (Genahr mentions that he
knew of Giles' 2nd ed., but because of the timing wasn't able to consult it),
and it's two huge volumes--maybe 3.5-4" thick combined (and the paper
size is large, too).


> >Giles' does have some Cantonese and Hakka characters in it, I
> recall,
> >which would help explain why he'd have an actual "loquat"
> entry.
>
> I don’t know which characters are specifically Hakka but the
> book does include character readings in 10 Chinese dialects
> (Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka, Foochow, Wenchow, Ningpo, Peking,
> Mid-China, Yangchow and Ssuch’uan) as well as in Korean,
> Japanese and Annamese (Vietnamese).

I noticed it had tong1 'to butcher' in it, but with only Cantonese and Hakka
readings given; I figured that lack of readings in other dialects would be a
strong clue that they were dialect characters (for dialect words).


Thomas Chan
tc31@cornell.edu

[%sig%]

Kobo-Daishi

Re: Loquat

Postby Kobo-Daishi » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:26 am

Dear Thomas,

>What're the dimensions like?

The dictionary is about 3 inches X 7 1/4 inches X 10 1/2 inches. It has 1711 pages.

>I noticed it had tong1 'to butcher' in it, but with only
>Cantonese and Hakka readings given; I figured that lack
>of readings in other dialects would be a strong clue that
>they were dialect characters (for dialect words).

Oh. And those characters also have the word “vulgar” instead of characters under the heading “rhyme”.

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

gondri

Re: Loquat

Postby gondri » Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:25 pm

loquat is a fruit.

sheetha
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:13 pm

Re: Loquat

Postby sheetha » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:27 pm

Do you know if “loquats” are called 枇杷 because they are shaped like the Chinese lute, the pipa 紫] (Mand: pi2 pa2, Cant: pei4 pa4)?

Also, what Chinese-English dictionary do you think is the best available? Either in print or as software?


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