Off topic question?

Discussions on the Cantonese language.
quangtrunghoangde

Re: Off topic question?

Postby quangtrunghoangde » Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:08 pm

i don't believe that word "Viet" is a Vietnamese pronounciation of the "chinese" word "yue". But I believe the word "yue" is a chinese prounciation of the vietnamese word "viet" instead. I find it to be funny when the chinese characters that describe the word "yue" as "beyond or to cross". The word "Viet" is just the name that the ancient Vietnamese people called themselves. This word "Viet" doesn't necessarily have any meaning at all. Just look at the words "dog", "cat" etc; they don't have any meaning at all except they refer to a group of animals that have four legs, two eyes etc ;)

ppk

Re: Off topic question?

Postby ppk » Tue Apr 01, 2003 5:57 am

hkb,

chao in vietnamese for morning is 'zhao' in chinese/cantonese(朝, simp. chin. font) for morning too.

'yelang' is a state in ancient yunnan if i remember properly, which had a leader taught they have more lands than han dynasty, thus given the idiom 'yelang zida', meaning the people of yelang thinks greatly of themselves.

quangtrunghoangde,
the history we see present day is an accumulation thruout the ages. in old days confucious ws just confucious but as time past, he was given multiple titles. the myth/history of vietnam went thru the same thing too. so u want to show your evidences, state the time frame.

i believe that viet/yue etc is a meaningless vowel ancient viets called themselves. a slight variations in different language of that area. but i think its not accurate to equate modern vietnamese to ancient viets. they are closely related, but i dont think they are exactly the same.

Mirror

Re: Off topic question?

Postby Mirror » Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:12 am

It depends how the dragon looks like. The Chinese has their own Chinese dragon. The Japanese dragon doesn't look exactly like the Chinese dragon. To ask the origin of dragon is like asking the origin of god. Though they coexist, that doesn't mean it has to be coming from one place.

E Guido

Just wondering how you say...?

Postby E Guido » Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:26 am

In Cantonese, how would you say dragon or a red dragon? More importantly how can I look up how you say some related things, in Cantonese please?

...

Re: Off topic question?

Postby ... » Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:44 am

Thomas Chan:
"Those Viets have barbaric writing that looks like worm squiggles and
chicken scratches--let's replace it with ours in schools and government
administration."

worm squiggles and chicken scratches... hahhhaha lol..

abc

Re: Just wondering how you say...?

Postby abc » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:12 am

>Just wondering how you say...?
>Author: E Guido (---.031.und.nodak.edu)
>Date: 10-11-03 08:26

>In Cantonese, how would you say dragon or a red dragon? More >importantly how can I look up how you say some related things, in >Cantonese please?

hung loung (red dragon), loung (dragon)

Pepsi246o1

Re: Off topic question?

Postby Pepsi246o1 » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:00 am

Wow, this has become a heated debate between which culture/language (Vietnamese and Chinese) is older and had more clout. No doubt it would be the Chinese. Both Korea and Japan borrowed/based their written language on existing Chinese written language. I don't know too much about Vietnamese language, but seeing as how it looks similar to regular Roman script, I would assume that they developed their written language around the time the French invaded Vietnam. Anyways, on these assumptions that would mean the Chinese made more advancements on language first at least in terms of a written language. Every ethnic group wants to believe that they are the motherland (aka everybody copies them) or they are most superior, but who really gives a ****?

abc123

Re: Off topic question?

Postby abc123 » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:09 am

ya.. why did the japs take our chinese characters and added their hiragana and katakana?... japs were probably once chinese..

...

Re: Off topic question?

Postby ... » Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:11 am

uh..japanese?? ew..

neway, aren't we all the same ppl.....

kimberly

how do u write in chinese

Postby kimberly » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:46 am

how do you write in chinese they said they are symbols but i can not understand them please reply

drunk_on_tea

Re: Off topic question?

Postby drunk_on_tea » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:37 pm

The Vietnamese word that equates the Chinese word for Yue which means "beyond or surpass" is NOT viet...but vuot.
Vuot also means beyond or surpass and Viet has no other definition according to my knowledge except to connotate the ethnicity or ancestry of the peoples of Viet Nam.
Thus, the Cantonese word Yuet is closer to the word Viet than is the word Yue of Mandarin. This relation is not coincidental since ancient Vietnamese came from the Guandong and Guangxi area.
In terms of the word Yue(t) only, it is probably a Vietnamese word loaned to Cantonese and then Mandarin.

charlene

Re: Off topic question?

Postby charlene » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:55 am

Wow... indeed this is a heated debate. I think that both sides have great arguments. But i would have to say that i think the Chinese influenced the Vietnamese. The facts that have been presented are more in favor of the Chinese. First of all, I'm not too sure if the Viet really had "chicken scratch" as their first form of writing system but it is factual that the Vietnamese did use Chinese characters as their form of writing systems for many years. Many words in viet is very closely related to Chinese as well. But later on, during the French invasion, their form of writing has influenced the Viet, and yet they changed their writing systems. No longer writing with Chinese characters but a form of writing similar to Eng/French (letters, no longer using symbols). If the Vietnamese really did favor their own writting system, why is it that they change while under authority of another? Not to say that they are traitors or that they are weak and can't defend themselves, but if they really did honor their writing system and wanted it to influence and remain the country's offical writing system, they would not change it in the first place but instead have their "writing system" evolve... like that of the chinese language and writing system. Also, when there was a debate that the Chinese conquered the Vietnamese, the chinese destroy evidence of the vietnamese writing system and the millions of vietnamese could prove that, why didn't they keep their Viet writing and speaking system going on? Even though they were under control they could have still spoke the "original Vietnamese" language instead of borrowing from the Chinese.

charlene

Re: Off topic question?

Postby charlene » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:55 am

Wow... indeed this is a heated debate. I think that both sides have great arguments. But i would have to say that i think the Chinese influenced the Vietnamese. The facts that have been presented are more in favor of the Chinese. First of all, I'm not too sure if the Viet really had "chicken scratch" as their first form of writing system but it is factual that the Vietnamese did use Chinese characters as their form of writing systems for many years. Many words in viet is very closely related to Chinese as well. But later on, during the French invasion, their form of writing has influenced the Viet, and yet they changed their writing systems. No longer writing with Chinese characters but a form of writing similar to Eng/French (letters, no longer using symbols). If the Vietnamese really did favor their own writting system, why is it that they change while under authority of another? Not to say that they are traitors or that they are weak and can't defend themselves, but if they really did honor their writing system and wanted it to influence and remain the country's offical writing system, they would not change it in the first place but instead have their "writing system" evolve... like that of the chinese language and writing system. Also, when there was a debate that the Chinese conquered the Vietnamese, the chinese destroy evidence of the vietnamese writing system and the millions of vietnamese could prove that, why didn't they keep their Viet writing and speaking system going on? Even though they were under control they could have still spoke the "original Vietnamese" language instead of borrowing from the Chinese.

[%sig%]

drunk_on_tea

Re: Off topic question?

Postby drunk_on_tea » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:04 pm

{Even though they were under control they could have still spoke the "original Vietnamese" language instead of borrowing from the Chinese.}

Charlene, this is the whole point of the debate. What is the "original Vietnamese" language? Despite the history between these two cultures, linguists are now questioning whether or not the basic words that are common between Chinese and Vietnamese can possibly be labeled "loan words." The Vietnamese probably DID keep their language and because it may be a Sino-Tibetan language itself (meaning that, since these two languages are related in the first place, their similarities would of course exist). Past scholars who have been labeling Vietnamese under the Mon-Khmer branch fails to recognize that the commonalities between these languages with Vietnamese may be because of Vietnamese influences. That is why it may be difficult for Vietnamese to hear that their language is consisted of "loaned words" while many words that are truly Vietnamese are also similar to Chinese. Current research upon this subject is completely inadequate and that is why it should be taken with a grain of salt.

Jean Sebastien

Re: Off topic question?

Postby Jean Sebastien » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:55 pm

Well,

I know:
both Chinese and Vietnamese people

saw real dragons and started painting them and using them as symbols...

why searching for difficulty ?!

JS


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